missouritrappersonline

Hosted by freeforums.org
It is currently Sat Oct 25, 2014 1:10 pm

All times are UTC - 5 hours



Welcome
Welcome to missouritrappersonline Forum.

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content, and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple, and absolutely free, so please, join our community today!


Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 14 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: MTA FUR AUCTION
PostPosted: Sat Jul 19, 2008 11:33 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Mar 26, 2008 10:23 pm
Posts: 873
Location: Jefferson County, MO
In my opinion, MTA FUR AUCTION is the best state association run fur auction in the country. It sets the tone of prices paid in the country.
We need to realize this AUCTION is a service to our members . It was never set up to be "MONEY MAKER" !!!!!!!!!

P.S. You'll need a little more than 17 cents.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jul 26, 2008 5:12 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed Mar 26, 2008 10:27 pm
Posts: 236
Location: Lancaster,MO
If I remember correctly the commission was raised up to 5% because of the fur market.Coons went from the $20's down to $6-$8 range.Some expenses changed for example:it used to be a bucket of chicken shared for lunch to an open account at the food stand for bidders.

_________________
Ron Pantry


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jul 27, 2008 12:29 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Apr 02, 2008 11:25 pm
Posts: 130
Location: moniteau, county
I have a question? I have read in ' other places ' that there is a lot of things being said about the new fee's for selling at the mta auction. I am not wanting to get in to the whole mess. But my question is- So what if the mta makes money on the auctions? I have sold fur at the sales, never had a problem with paying. If some dont care for the fee's they have the right to sell somewhere else. Again, I am not wanting to stir the pot, just dont understand . Thanks to anyone who will shed a little light on this for me. Bill


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jul 27, 2008 12:49 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Mar 26, 2008 10:23 pm
Posts: 873
Location: Jefferson County, MO
Mr.Bill Im glad you brought It up. Its a never ending conversation that we can discuss in a civil way.( I hope) And we should be able to hear everyones opionon on what they think is right or wrong with the auction. :) :)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 2:55 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Mar 26, 2008 10:23 pm
Posts: 873
Location: Jefferson County, MO
This is my opinion and mine only .Karin and I ran the MO fur auctions for nine consecutive years. And have sold fur there for twice as long . So I have some insight on this issue.

This is the way I see it. When we ran the auction it was lean times! We had a 2.5% commission. Coons were averaging $5.oo and $6.oo, but we never lost money. We didn’t make much like $1500 profit for all sales per year. Then the price of the rent went up and auctioneers went up so we raised the commission to 3.5%. At the same time the fur market took a upward turn then we started making a little money. Maybe $2000 per sale .But you have to remember the MO TRAPPERS ASSOCIATION had little money in the bank at this time so $6000 or $8000 made was a good part of the yearly income. Then the market went down so we went with a 4.% commission to keep the profit around the same. So the times we ran it you paid between 25cents up to 40 cents on a $10.00 coon.. And we still made money.

My job as a fur auction chairman was to get as many fur buyers there and to get the trappers top dollar for there fur! One attraction to get the larger buyers there was to get the bigger fur producers to come sell their fur at the sale. These fur buyers want large collections of fur that are from certain sections of the country that are of same like. These fur producers usually have good put up, same color ,and hair length. Kind of like a ranch mink all the same. And have bought these collections for years. I received calls before the auction from these bigger buyers to find out if these certain fur producers were going to sell that day and what I thought they had to sell. These buyers were traveling long distances to come to the sale and my goal was to get them there; .And when we got them there they like to spend money. So that benefited the guy with 500 coons and also the guy with 10.

Now that brings us to today. Robbie is in charge now and has done a better job then I could have ever dreamed of. I guess it pays so good he cant quit. LOL. We had a 5% commission and a $5oo.oo cap. Then fur started going way up! Otters were first $130.00 otter well that’s about $6.50 cent commission per otter. Well the bigger producers of otter started selling there otter somewhere else (including me). Some even selling outside the building. Just to avoid the commission. Then for some crazy reason they took the $500.00 cap off.

Then the price of everything else went up (good thing). So now you got $25.00 averages on coon so that's $1.25 a coon. So the bigger producers started calling around to get a price on there stuff before the auction. Truthfully paying over a $1000 to sell my fur there kind of scared me a little with no guarantee id get the same price I had offered me over the phone. No don't feel sorry for me .(I know you don't LOL). But I'm one of several that did the same thing. Remember if these buyers can buy these coons without going to the auction and this trend continues and even snowballs why will they attend our auctions. Believe me they would rather buy at their door then have to compete at the auction.

I know the MTA sale was a good sale this year but it could have been even better if a few more of the major buyers would have showed up. I sold my fur to Groenewold fur and he told me he hated state run fur sales because they pay to much .LOL That was after he paid me.

Yes the fur auction should make a profit and yes we all have a option to sell there or not. Most of the bigger fur producers want to sell there stuff at the MTA auction . But the commission is a little steep. We raised the commission to pay the expenses and keep a profit. Why cant we lower the commission so we can still pay expenses and make a good profit and try and keep all trappers happy. How much money do these auctions have to make,$20,000 $30,000? Remember this money is coming out of the trappers pockets.

This is were it gets hairy. I went to the 2008 spring meeting to get the commission lowered to 2.5% it failed! Then it was voted on a 25cents per hide and I voted yes. Not because I really wanted it .But I thought it was better then 5% at today's market. But I think It needs to be modified some how because selling a 50cent opossum and having to pay 25cents to sell doesn't make any cents. I think Robbie was kind of blind sided by this proposal,( I was). I personally think Robbie should have full control of this issue he is the CHAIRMAN a man of honor he will make it work for all of us trappers.

Tim L Reed :shock: :shock: :P


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 3:03 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Mar 26, 2008 7:29 pm
Posts: 334
Location: Near Warsaw Missouri
Very nicely put Tim.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 5:41 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed Apr 02, 2008 11:25 pm
Posts: 130
Location: moniteau, county
Tim, well done. now I get it. Sounds like it can use some improving.
You mentioned that some of the high end people make phone calls to get a feel for what ( or who ) will be there, Something I have wondered about is if the buyers get together and establish prices before the sale ever starts. Only seems natural that they would mill it over before hand. Thanks again. Bill


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 9:33 am 
Offline

Joined: Sun Jul 13, 2008 10:57 pm
Posts: 204
Location: Chariton County, Mo.
Well said Tim. You have got the sequence of events that led up to the 5% commission down pat.
The fur auctions have become a major fund raiser for the MTA. I don't think thats what they were originally designed for. Its my understanding their original intent was twofold. First it was used as a way to sign up new members. Secondly it was a benefit to MTA members by giving them a better place to sell their fur. Lets face it, money divides people. Fighting over money has been the ruination of many families and organizations. Thats is what I'm seeing with this issue. Slightly over 200 members sell fur at the auctions in a year. There are right at 1500 MTA members. Those are essentially the same 200 + members who sell year after year at the auction. That leaves over 1200 members who benefit from the commissions paid every year by the few. The most vocal members in favor of keeping the 5% commission NEVER sell fur at the auction. Lets face it, MTA has quite a bit of money. I'm not against raising funds for the MTA, but I think we should come up with other fund raising ideas rather than expecting the same 200 members to keep forking up year after year.
Commissions are used by businesses as a way of making money. If making money is the main objective of the fur auctions then keep the commission system. I feel that the per pelt charge is a much more fair way of running the auction. Most of you have heard this argument, but I'll make it anyway. Lets say Tim has 6 bundles of perfectly finished coons. He has honed his fur handling skills over the years and has worked his tail off on these coons. He sells them at a $24 average. In the lot behind Tim is a guy who has the same number of coon in six bundles. His coon are not only green , but are wet, muddy, bloody, dog chewed, etc. He sells his coon for a $8 average. It just cost Tim 3 times as much commission to sell the same number of coons. A per pelt charge puts enerybody on the same playing field.
I feel the goal of the fur auctions should be to break even on expenses. The per pelt fee can be tailored to do that. I don't know what that majic figure is, but it should be left up to the fur auction comittee to find that break even figure and go with it. Tim, you have a good point about the possums. I say let them sell sqiirrel tails and possums for free. They aren't much in total dollars anyway.
MTA fur auctions are a great enjoyment to attend. It's kind of a showcase that shows our winters efforts as trappers. If you've never went to one make plans to attend.
Clay


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 9:35 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed Mar 26, 2008 10:27 pm
Posts: 236
Location: Lancaster,MO
TREED,That was one of the best posts I have read on the forums I visit.Statements that are made from first hand experience not he said he said statements that end up twisted and wrong.

Bill,Robbie also mentioned at the spring meeting that Parker Dozhier also calls him after the sale for results .

The people that have built the MTA fur auction up to the status that it has today is a very good example of members trying to put the assoc. ahead of ,such things as personal agendas,that we are now seeing a whole lot more of than we did 10 years ago.It seems like money or something brings out the worst in some people

Ron

_________________
Ron Pantry


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 1:45 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Apr 07, 2008 6:14 am
Posts: 128
Location: boonville MO
Tim

You are right on the money my friend.
I just wish you would have put that in the MMM paper for every one to read. My hat is off to you.

Thank Rick :idea: :idea:


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 3:16 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Apr 02, 2008 11:25 pm
Posts: 130
Location: moniteau, county
Thanks for expanding on this, I have had these questions for awhile. I didnt want to get anyone ' worked up ' over the issue just wanted some insite, I agree that we should have a even playing field.

another question, What about the people that move the furs and make the sale happen? I am sure they volunteer, but is there anything that is done for them as a ' thank you' ? I have not been to many fur sales but I have been to more then a few. like most events, there always seems to be a few that do most of the grunt work.

Also a question of membership. When someone sells fur at the auctions they are required to be a member of the mta. I have noticed coon hunters selling there fur, which is fine. I am sure it is worth the membership fee.
But when we talk about the 200 people that sell fur at the auctions, wouldnt the actual numbers of trappers selling be lower?
Thanks again for speaking on this topic. Bill


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 4:18 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Apr 07, 2008 6:14 am
Posts: 128
Location: boonville MO
Mr Bill
Yes it is all voluntee worker that put it on and some time a few people will thank then for there work.
And yes the number is lower than the 200 it is closer 125 to 150 that is becaues a lot of menber get number of each sale and a lot off then don't even show up but that is the way is.

Rick


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 4:28 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Apr 02, 2008 11:25 pm
Posts: 130
Location: moniteau, county
Rick,
Thanks. Bill


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 4:56 pm 
Offline

Joined: Fri Mar 28, 2008 4:26 pm
Posts: 173
Location: maplewood missouri
tim my hats off to you. charlie

_________________
I LOVE LONG WALKS, INTERESTING CONVERSATIONS AND POKING DEAD THINGS WITH A STICK!!!


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 14 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 5 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron

suspicion-preferred